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Frontpage Updated: May 18th, 2012 - 12:27:10 Gay marriage solution: Separate church and state News : U.S.  -  Star-Ledger - New Jersey on May 18, 2012, 12:24 Civil marriage serves to regulate property rights, while religious marriage is a morally binding action entered into by followers of a particular belief system. Read more...   Vatican drops suit against Benetton over 'pope kiss' ad News : Europe  -  Ansa (Italy) on May 18, 2012, 12:22 Fashion house repents, donates to charity Read more...   Bible not the rule book on gay marriage News : Europe  -  Irish Times on May 18, 2012, 12:17 It is disappointing that Diarmuid Martin Archbishop of Dublin should use such (biblical) arguments in favour of a discrimination that is the cause of much pain and belittlement among a minority of society. Read more...   Christian blogger plunged into free speech row News : Europe  -  Daily Mail on May 18, 2012, 12:14 Christian blogger plunged into free speech row after being told to justify 'offensive and homophobic' anti-gay marriage advert Read more...   The Myth of America’s Christian Heritage News : U.S.  -  Council for Secular Humanism on May 18, 2012, 12:12 One counterfeit idea that circulates with frustrating stubbornness is the claim that America was founded as a Christian nation. It’s one of the Christian Right’s mantras and a favorite talking point for televangelists Read more...   More African-Americans leaving religious faiths News : U.S.  -  Intersection South LA. - University Of Southern California on May 18, 2012, 12:08 There have always been African-American free thinkers, humanists, agnostics and atheists who have really foregrounded the connection between eschewing religion and the liberation struggle, particularly as it pertains to women and the LGBT community Read more...   Secularism makes India what it is News : World  -  Daily Bhaskar on May 18, 2012, 12:06 Akbar said the reason for instability in Pakistan is because it was created for Islam and not for Muslims. India sustained because of its secularism and multi-cultural approach Read more...   Belgium court charges six people in deadly exorcism of Muslim woman News : World  -  Al Arabiya on May 17, 2012, 08:46 A young Muslim woman in Belgium, Latifa Hachmi, was reportedly deceived into believing that she could not have children because she was possessed and that she had to undergo a practice of exorcism. Read more...   Abortion Politics News : U.S.  -  OpEd News on May 17, 2012, 08:44 You have to hand it to the Catholic bishops. They not only define abortion, but also birth control, as murder. And they're willing to pin the very future of their Church to this arcane belief Read more...   Anti-gay doctor falls on sword as religious links mount News : World  -  Crikey (Australia) on May 17, 2012, 08:42 A conservative doctor at the centre of a gay marriage storm has resigned from the Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission but remains on the public payroll as the state’s second most senior psychiatrist. Read more...   More Headlines Comic Latest Forum Posts Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 18, 2012,12:30 in the Philosophy forum The law is involved. Their agreement will need to be backed by the government, and when they fail to reach an agreement, the government can make a decision in their stead. Sure, but it is exactly that sort of exploitation we seek to prevent. Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Theology that Atheists need to Hear Posted by genkaus on May 18, 2012,12:09 in the Religion forum I use the definition I gave when talking about concepts. Value is a conceptual property, not a conceptual entity, i.e. it always relates to something. Which is why, I focus on the "relating to" aspect. We can think of a thing that has value, the value relates (depends upon or determined by)... Thread Views: 11,900 , Thread Replies: 398 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 18, 2012,11:48 in the Philosophy forum I guess I'm a little behind times in postal services then. That is fairly rational and reasonable, but if the agreement were only between a committee representation of employers and a committee representation of employees (with individual employers and employees having separate agreements with their... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 18, 2012,11:41 in the Philosophy forum No, I'm using the manufacturing costs to determine the value being added. Its possible that something may go wrong during the manufacture and the end product be worthless, in which case there would still be manufacturing costs, but no actual value added. Noted. I'd like to evaluate the "value... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 18, 2012,07:47 in the Philosophy forum You're making a few mistakes here. Postal services are trying to make a profit, so the monetary value printed on the stamp (1 cent in our example, I assume to be from quite a while back :) ) is most likely more than what it costs to get the envelope to its destination. Postal services do raise... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 18, 2012,07:28 in the Philosophy forum Ok, you're equating intrinsic value with manufacturing costs. A technical point, whisky needs to mature in oak casks. And to make this whisky, you need 33 years of maturation. So you cannot escape the warehousing cost, in this particular instance. Indeed the warehousing cost does not add to the whisky,... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Theology that Atheists need to Hear Posted by bowmore on May 18, 2012,07:01 in the Religion forum a : relating to or existing as an object of thought without consideration of independent existence I mean, really, your argument should simply be : we can think of value, so value is objective. Or if you really just want to focus on the relating to perhaps : we can think of the thing that has value,... Thread Views: 11,900 , Thread Replies: 398 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,18:46 in the Philosophy forum I'm not equating cost with intrinsic value, I'm assuming initial value to be zero (for the raw materials) and determining how much value has been added to the object. I did not include warehousing costs because they do not seem to add anything the whiskey itself. And I did not do the same with stamps... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,18:37 in the Philosophy forum The postage stamps value is the cost of transportation of the envelope it is stamped on to its destination. That cost would not change even if no one is willing to buy that stamp. An agreement between whom? That's my problem here. In case of employment, the only agreement that should matter is the... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 17, 2012,18:26 in the Philosophy forum Mmm, seems you equivocate cost with intrinsic value. Yet you don't do that with the stamp. (btw you forgot warehousing costs) Nevertheless cost is utltimately also determined by supply and demand. So here you look at what someone would pay for the bottle who was just looking to get drunk (or at least... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 17, 2012,18:03 in the Philosophy forum No, you claimed its value was still one cent (even though no one would be willing to pay that). I also already addressed this. We determine what we consider 'full time' by agreement and use that as a basis. If we agree it to be 40 hours, and minimally needed to survive is set at $ 500/week minimum... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,17:58 in the Philosophy forum Let's take it in three steps. 1. Intrinsic value: That'd be based on the value put into its manufacture. Without knowledge of any current prices, I'd evaluate the cost put into the bottle and the making of the liquor back in 1969 and factor in the inflation since then. That should give me the current... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Theology that Atheists need to Hear Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,17:49 in the Religion forum No. Everything we think about is the object of our thought - not objective. If out thought relates to/depends upon the object of our thought, then it is objective. Suppose, I think, "The food is tasty". Here, I am the subject of the thought, the food is the object and tasty - being my judgment... Thread Views: 11,900 , Thread Replies: 398 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 17, 2012,17:46 in the Philosophy forum So how would you determine that value then? Before you answer, I'll provide another likewise example. I have in my collection a bottle of whisky with the following specifications : Labeled "The Whisky House" distilled in 1969, aged 33 years, bottled at 50.5% ABV. How would you determine... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,17:38 in the Philosophy forum I did. It is 1 cent. The problem is determining the "available labor". Available labor and minimum wage would then be two sides of an equation. Suppose a person's minimum need is worth 500 dollars. If one person works 50 hours a week, his minimum wage should be 10 dollars/hr. A person... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 17, 2012,16:52 in the Philosophy forum Feel free to show it does have value. I already explained that this could be divided proportionately over multiple employers, and that minimum wage would be expressed in an hourly wage. You're just trying to turn a practicality into a principal problem. If an employer just uses part of a person's available... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Theology that Atheists need to Hear Posted by bowmore on May 17, 2012,16:37 in the Religion forum Oh, right. Now your arguments make even less sense. Basically everything we think about is objective, since it is the object of our thought. If I think about subjectivity, then it is objective. And with 'objective value' you mean nothing more than 'the value we think about'. Am I to understand that... Thread Views: 11,900 , Thread Replies: 398 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,16:10 in the Philosophy forum That does not mean it does not have any value. Here we go again. This is how your argument goes: Q: What is exploitation? A: Exploitation is helping yourself at the expense of others. Q: How do you determine if it is at their expense? A: If what they are being paid is less than what they... Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256 Theology that Atheists need to Hear Posted by genkaus on May 17, 2012,16:02 in the Religion forum "Object of thought" - in this case - refers to something that is being considered. Here, the word object is being used in the grammatical sense. For example, Alice is thinking about Bob. Here, Bob is the object of thought and Alice is the subject of thought. Purpose does. Value of the purpose... Thread Views: 11,900 , Thread Replies: 398 Some thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma Posted by bowmore on May 17, 2012,15:55 in the Philosophy forum Exactly, no one values it. As I've said : helping yourself at the expense of others. Thread Views: 1,772 , Thread Replies: 256

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